Yuriy Lutsenko in 2002 told something completely different about Western Ukraine (before Maidanul)

2024 Author: Seth Attwood | [email protected]. Last modified: 2023-12-16 15:55

Elena Boyko threw me a link to an old pre-maid interview from 2002 of the now reckless Bandera, the complete degenerate imbitillus of the Prosecutor General of Banderoukropia, Yuri Lutsenko.

In 2002, he is the most honest and intelligent Soviet internationalist. What he said then, it is not at all possible to imagine what he will say now. These are 2 completely different Yuri Lutsenko.

I am increasingly beginning to believe the crazy, as it seemed to me before, version that the Americans have come up with some kind of substance that completely changes a person's personality.

Although, perhaps, everything is much simpler. The Americans found some kind of compromising evidence on Lutsenko, and under the threat of its disclosure, they force a person to say and do what is contrary to his desires and even his nature. It's easy to understand with Poroshenko. He is suspected of killing his own brother in order to get his share of the inheritance or something else. The Americans probably have the evidence, and it allowed them to force the successful billionaire with five children, instead of resting on his laurels in Monte Carlo in his old age, to become the president of a belligerent, crumbling, impoverished country. Although, he did not need it at all. Now, only alcohol helps him out. I wrote about this in more detail here.

And what they found at Lutsenko's to twist him like that - I don't know. Who has any opinions - write in the comments.

Banderokry say that this interview was invented by Putin after the Maidan, but it was published in 2005 on "Censor.net". Below are quotes, highlighting the most important in bold.

-Exactly - this is the homeland of the UPA. The Ukrainian insurgent army was created in the Rivne region, then spread to Volyn, and only then, by the way, it ended up in the Lvov region. I really grew up on the Polish border. The line of defense of the old border of 1939 stretched right in the middle of the Rivne region.

When they tell me today about the clamping down of the Ukrainian language in the Soviet Union, it always seems funny to me. We had enough of both Russian and Ukrainian schools. Whoever wanted where, he studied there. I believed and still believe that in the Soviet Union there was no national problem in principle.

I studied in Lviv in the 80s, when Chornovil had already returned from exile, and Khmara has already spoken at all rallies and demanded to hang all Muscovites … … But, at the same time, in Lviv, I did not feel any national problems. I am an "orientalist" - for the people of Lviv, everyone who came from behind Zbruch is "Muscovite". Whether jokingly or seriously, they say so. But, I repeat, I believe that we did not have a national question. The problems began when the national question was made their bread and arms for getting bread by extremist politicians.

Before the war, about 1 million 400 thousand inhabitants lived in the Rivne region. Now we are only approaching a million …

It was in the Rivne region that the UPA was created as a weapon to fight the Polish population

In the early years of the war, the Banderaites took up the Jews. We had about twenty percent of the population. In some regional centers, Jews accounted for up to 60%. Almost all of them were destroyed in the first 2 years, except for those who managed to join the partisan detachments of Medvedev, Fedorov, Kovpak - they all passed through our area. But, in addition, the Banderaites began to exterminate the Melnikovites. These were people who also represented the OUN (an organization of Ukrainian nationalists - ed.), But the Melnikov wing. In addition, there were still formations of Bulbashevites, or rather “Bulbivtsi”. They were also mercilessly destroyed.

It was an armed struggle for power in the party within the OUN. Bandera almost completely destroyed the "Bulbivtsi" and very seriously battered the Melnikovites. The one who was stronger pressed. And there were no political compromises, there was an armed struggle.

Why were the Poles massacred in our country? It is still a mystery to me why atrocities based on ethnicity reached such intensity, when people were thrown into wells, children were massacred, entire villages were shot on ethnic grounds? This was only in our country and in Yugoslavia. The eyes of the Yugoslavs were gouged out and thrown into the wells, and so was ours. I don’t know more such examples in Europe. Probably, something is extremist in us. Maybe long-term communication with Asia? We were under the Tatars for a long time, and they were under the Turks …

Before Christmas 1943, UPA fighters surrounded all Polish settlements in the Rivne and Volyn regions and destroyed everyone … How many, no one knows, the Poles believe that the count goes to hundreds of thousands. Moreover, you understand, the borderland, everyone spoke a mixed language, it is difficult to divide people. But, nevertheless, there were purely Polish settlements. I read the diaries and letters of both Bendera and Poles … What I came across was simply staggering.

The first executions of Poles in 1941 were carried out by the "Bulbovites". Only the Germans entered and the Bandera and Bulbovites appeared. But the Bulbo men were more active and were the first to create armed forces in the forests. They entered into an alliance with the Germans, offered their services for the destruction of the "Soviet partisan in the Polish hollow", in our opinion, in the Pinsk swamps. There, on the border with Belarus, we had a completely red area with a functioning underground regional party committee, where the Germans were never able to enter. A newspaper was published, all partisan detachments stayed there for the night … Swamps and swamps. The Germans could not get through there, they only bombed heavily.

So, I was shocked by the story. Child surviving writing. He was 5 years old, and Bulbovites came to the village. All Polish families were taken to the Maidan and under escort they were taken into the forest. People cried, turned to their guards, they say, we went to school together, our children played together, and where are you taking us ?! They replied that they had an order to just bring you there, and that nothing terrible would happen. You will simply be evicted.

Nevertheless, they were taken to a forest clearing, and already another team began executions. There is a crowd of adults and children, and they take turns starting to be laid face down by 50 in a row, and 2 people walk from the edges towards each other and shoot in the heads. And this kid, and they had three children with their mother, two more sisters were older, looked at all this. The mother's nerves could not stand it, she could no longer endure and said that she had to go and die. She put the boy under her. The nationalist who reached her shot her in the head, and blood and brains splattered on her son's head. Therefore, the one who was walking from the left flank decided that he had been killed and did not start shooting. The boy did not lose his mind, he lay for another 5 hours under his mother, got out and survived …

This is one small picture of what was happening then in the Rivne region. It was all around. The whole Volyn was covered, first by the executions of Jews, then by Poles, then by showdowns among themselves., then the battles between the Bandera and the so-called "hawks" - the NKVD extermination battalions, which fought against the Bandera. The region burned for at least ten years. The fighting went on until 1952. There was a war, active somewhere until 1947, then less, but it was going on. In fact, a civil war. Because stories about the NKVDists with a Russian language with a Moscow accent are fiction. The destroyer battalions were, as a rule, Ukrainians and, as a rule, Western Ukrainians. Therefore, it was a constant murderous war between their own.

Why do I think that the UPA should never be revived? Because the politicians who raised the UPA banner in the early 90s actually revived the enmity. It should be understood that in the 60s the problem of the UPA was more or less erased, and in the 80s the children of Bandera were already joining the party, holding positions … It turns out that the governor was the son of a Bandera, and the director of the plant was the son of a Bandera …

In the 60s and 70s, when the exiled Bandera supporters began to return from Siberia, they were returning rich. After all, they were first in the camps, and then they worked in the settlement and earned the "northern" ones. Those. former policemen and nationalists returned to beggar collective farms and began, next to those who fought with them, to build houses, raise livestock, develop farms …

The grandchildren and children of the survivors were simply crazy about the facts when the policemen came and built their mansions. But under the watchful eye of the communist party somehow, these problems were rubbed in and people, in any case, did not violently express their enmity. It remained in the souls, but the enmity still left the streets.

But as soon as politicians began to glorify the UPA, and the second stage, by the way, was the revival of the Kiev Patriarchate of the Orthodox Church, this problem passed like a bloody scar among families. There were many families where one grandfather fought in the "hawks" or Soviet partisans, and the other was on the side of Bandera. Families immediately began to argue about this. Argue about which church to enroll in - the Moscow Patriarchate or Kiev. Bendera, as a rule, went to Kiev, and, relatively speaking, Soviet people or victims of the UPA - to Moscow.

Although, there are quite interesting exceptions. For example, the Derman Monastery. Derman is a huge village of 1000 houses, the heart of the Bandera region, where there was a school for UPA lieutenants and a huge Bandera movement. These same people with pitchforks and axes go out and defend the Orthodox monastery of the Moscow Patriarchate when Vasya Chervoniy arrives with his Cossacks. The population, which gives 90% of the votes to Rukh in the elections, does not allow the same Rukh to transfer the monastery to the Kiev Patriarchate. Apparently, this rests on the authority of the abbot.

But, this is one example. In general, enmity began. I personally witnessed the confrontation, when for a year the believers of the Moscow Patriarchate stood guard with a pitchfork at the Cathedral in Rovno, which they were trying to transfer to the Kiev Patriarchate. And other believers with axes went to them, trying to fight off the church. Moreover, I am not embellishing. Indeed, there were pitchforks and axes, and riot police stood between the crowds. In Rivne, the OMON is the most literate in church chants. Because, at first, they will be beaten, and then they disperse, and sing psalms on opposite sides of the chain of riot policemen. Some are in Ukrainian, others are in Russian.

There were families where one member of the family goes to the church of the Moscow Patriarchate, the other to the Kiev one. And mother and son do not communicate, because they go to different churches. The husband and wife are getting divorced because he bows before the heroes of the UPA, and she has three victims in her family at the hands of the UPA. Moreover, these are not isolated facts, but a whole system. The area shook from 1991 to 1995.

Then, again, the politicians got their way. Some became a deputy, some sat down to oil, some went to a refinery … And, it seems, everything began to calm down. But, nevertheless, if we raise this problem again, it will blow up our land again. Because we had 30% in the UPA, 30% - fought against the UPA, 20% - it was there and there, and the rest were visitors … And, nevertheless, in every Rivne village everyone knows where the well is, in where the victims of the UPA lie tied with barbed wire, and where are the graves of the Bandera, who were killed either by the NKVD or, which is extremely rare, by the Germans.

Don't touch it! It is my deep conviction: this topic is taboo! As long as people are alive, they are participants in these events. Ukraine is already divided enough and there is no need to divide it even more.

If we seriously talk about the rehabilitation of the UPA, then it took place a long time ago. In 1991, everyone who fought received pensions. Those who committed war crimes were in the police, they are not subject to rehabilitation. Somehow we don't speak much, but in Babi Yar, Jews were shot by Ukrainians, and Khatyn (perhaps Lutsenko meant Katyn ed.) Was burned by a Ukrainian police unit with 15 Germans.

Yes, we can recognize the UPA as a belligerent party. But on which side? Maybe they should receive their pensions in Berlin? And will the Germans be happy about such an appeal for pensions? Again, a sea of people around the world are interested in this issue. What will be the reaction of Poland, Russia, Israel, USA, Canada, Australia? When the issue was discussed in the Verkhovna Rada in 1995, then-speaker Alexander Moroz sent inquiries to foreign embassies and received official replies that the states of Poland, Israel and Russia would sever diplomatic relations with Ukraine if the UPA was rehabilitated. Maybe the time has changed now, and there will be no such harsh reaction, but the reaction of world public opinion will follow in any case if Ukraine recognizes the people convicted by the Nuremberg Tribunal as war veterans.

And we somehow began to call the SS division "Galicia" "the first Ukrainian division of" Galicia. " a list of them is given, where there is a place and divisions "Galicia". Any attempt to rehabilitate these people will harm Ukraine. This issue has been resolved once and for all.

- By the way, you were the deputy. Governor of the Rivne region in the year of the 50th anniversary of the Victory? They say that real battles took place there …

- Yes, indeed, until 1995, on Victory Day, our veterans were … beaten. I have 4 memories in my life that I can be proud of. I will say that the first of them is related to this, 1995, year. I was the vice-governor and for some reason I was the only head of the region on this holiday. The governor went to the celebration in Kiev on the 7th and for some reason could not get back, and all the other deputies for some reason fell ill. I stayed with the rukhovets, deputy. on work with parties. Nobody wanted to deal with Victory Day. Because our Rukhovites were strange until recent years. They did not consider Victory Day to be a holiday. Now they have somehow softened, but then they considered this day - a holiday of the invaders. This caused a rare outrage in the city. And we, traditionally, on this day arranged a procession to the fraternal cemetery. In 1992, during this procession, I carried the only red flag. We had an amazing youth column, because the number of police officers and the SBU was greater than the number of party members. Every year there was such a memory parade, and every year the column was attacked by bandit formations, I cannot name it otherwise, the Volyn Sich, which was then headed by the people's deputy Vasily Chervoniy.

Every year we had real fights with them using sticks, rods … It got to both sides, we tried to cover the veterans as best we could …

And in 1995, as a representative of the authorities, a person from the SBU came to me and said that, according to their information, an attack was being prepared on the convoy this year too. I called a meeting of law enforcement agencies and utilities, took a blank piece of paper and said: Here is the plan for the parade. Ahead is an armored personnel carrier with the flag of the 13th Army, which was taking the city. The commander of the 13th Army is responsible for this (We have this army lodged) Then there is a column of veterans with the flags and banners that they consider it necessary to carry. This is their right. Understood? Understood.

The head of the militia had a question. He asked what to do if the Rukhites began to attack the column. I said that the force of the law must be applied: sticks in the hands, on the head and into the car. If these people want to join the column, please let them follow the veterans. If they want to picket, please let them stand along the way and picket. And the SBU needs to hold preventive conversations with activists so that this idiocy, this massacre on May 9 does not take place. The law enforcers looked at each other and said that power in the region had been restored. As a result of these preventive actions only on the 50th anniversary of Victory in Rivne there was no fight … This is one of my fondest memories.

We also, already on the party line, gathered all the red partisans on the central hill of the Pinsk swamps. The swamps have already been drained, but the hill has remained and the pillars under the tables have remained from partisan times. We stuffed new boards on top of them, set the tables. About three hundred guests arrived, there was even one Chinese, Hero of the Soviet Union, who fought in our area

And with me was a colleague, that very Rukhovets. For some reason, he came in military uniform, although he did not serve in the army. But, on the cap, instead of an asterisk, I inserted a trident. Well, we sat down at the table, and on the tables was vodka "Rivne partisan", which was presented to us by a former partisan, twice Hero of Socialist Labor, chairman of the collective farm "Zarya Kommunizma", and now just "Zarya", Vladimir Krutitsky. He is a Pole, partisan since the age of 18, was badly wounded by Bandera and his arm was almost amputated. And now we are drinking his vodka, and after the second toast I witnessed a completely unique scene. Rural partisans are old-fashioned men who have not been spoiled by attention at all. On Victory Day, the chairman of the village council, at best, shook hands with them and gave them 2 kg of sugar for moonshine. And they still plow in their gardens. They look like mushrooms - just as tight. And so one drank half a glass of vodka, and looking at this deputy chairman with his trident, he says in our local mixture of Ukrainian and Belarusian: “Hey, lad, I don’t know who you are, but take off this“x… yu”from your hat ! ". He calmly replies that this is, they say, not "garbage", but "sovereign" symbolism. The grandfather calmly drinks another glass, stretches out his hands across the table to him, takes the breasts and says: "Boy, I don't know who you are here, but I banged about ten people with such symbolism, and buried them in the sand. Right now, you will be the eleventh." … And he and about five grandfathers took the rukhovian by the chest and dragged him into the forest. And they forced the trident to be removed and buried in the sand with their own hands. The police did not give me a strong beat. The grandfathers were reassured, they sang a song together …

Nationalists are smart. I really respect Taras Chernovil and his father. But I know others who consider it a virtue to fight veterans on Victory Day.

At one time there was a wonderful mayor in the city of Rovno, by the way, a former member of the party committee of my plant. So our city council commission went around the city and checked the price tags on grocery stores. So that, God forbid, the word "Soda" was written. Because you have to write "Potash" in Ukrainian. We have 98% Ukrainian population, but housewives do not know anything about potash. Just as they do not know that volleyball is "sitkuvka" and basketball is "koshikuvka". And the story of the holidays! The mayor decided that all "big" holidays should be canceled and, by his decision, forbade to hold New Year's parties in kindergartens and schools and put up a Christmas tree in the center of the city. I call him and say: "Ivan, is the New Year a" big "holiday?" And he answers me that the Ukrainians have fasting at this time, not drunkenness. Then I ask: "Do you recognize December 31?" He: "I admit." "And the first of January?" "Too". "Ah, when the clock strikes between them …". "That is Moskalski kuranti beaut" - the mayor replied. But then a storm arose in the city, and he called me back and said that, okay, "you can look at your yalinka in the center of the city." I went to the center, there really is a New Year tree, and at the top there is a trident. I call the mayor back and say that even the communists didn’t put a hammer and sickle on the tree, and if he doesn’t like the star so much, I, as a Ukrainian, will give him a way out: you can put a Ukrainian Christmas eight-pointed star on the tree. What do you think? The next day, a healthy eight-pointed star flaunted on the New Year tree in the center of Rivne, half of which was painted yellow and half - blue.

I am already silent about the massive removal of monuments and the same massive installation of stones at the site of the future Shevchenko's monuments. We have 3 such stones installed in Exactly. And the only monument to Shevchenko in the city center was erected by the next mayor, Russian by nationality. The most remarkable creation of those years was the mockery of the monument to the Hero of the Soviet Union, intelligence officer Kuznetsov. We held pickets there for a year and did not allow it to be dismantled. But they chose the night when ours were few, and the bust was removed. And instead of him, a figure of two wings was put on a pedestal, in which a cross is visible in the light. And they called it a monument to the fallen soldiers of the UPA. Can you imagine this completely Soviet pedestal with chains and a three-meter stele and on it these wings? The people named the monument "Democrats' Flight".

- Oh, you tell with great feeling …

“You don’t understand this. You are sitting here in Donetsk as if in a tank, and this did not touch you in any way, but my hometown was renamed! It was Exactly, but it became Rivne. Our city is built on the hills, it is not even! The name came from ancient times, when Prince Lyubomirsky bought this place on the hills and said: "That's it. Now EXACTLY one hundred …". We were from Roven, and now … you can't say so easily. We had a river in the center of the city called Ustye. In Ukrainian, "mouth" is translated as "girlo". But the river was not named Girl, but named as Ustya. Ustya - what's this ?! We have a lot of ancient regional centers around Rivne - Korets, Ostrog, Rokitno, Goshcha … So they wanted to rename all of them in order to replace the Russian letters "o" with Ukrainian "i". But, fortunately, the people there are more serious, went out into the streets and defended their native towns.

Moskovsky Komsomolets in Donbass, No. 46 dated 2002-13-11

Dmitry Durnev

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