Spies and scouts

2024 Author: Seth Attwood | [email protected]. Last modified: 2023-12-16 15:55

Most of us are familiar with the life of fiction and film scouts. How do people under cover, the so-called "illegal immigrants", actually live? An interview with Andrei Bezrukov, who was detained by the US intelligence services along with ten other Russian intelligence officers more than 7 years ago …

Donald Heathfield owned a consulting company in the United States, was educated at Harvard and raised two children with his wife. He was a very successful American citizen. It is unlikely that any of his acquaintances and colleagues could have thought that Donald Heathfield was actually named Andrei Bezrukov and that he was the head of the Russian intelligence group. Bezrukov has been working undercover abroad since the end of the last century and during this time he has not uttered a single word in Russian. Two years ago, he was betrayed by a traitor, after which he returned to Russia.

You cannot use your native language even at home …

First, let's clarify what to call what you did in the United States. Espionage?

This is what the American intelligence services are doing in Russia. You know, there is a difference in concepts. In English "espionage" is translated as spying, but in Russian spy has two meanings: "spy" and "scout". It can be understood in different ways. It was not for nothing that in the Soviet Union they called their own people a good word "scout", and enemies - "spies".

They say that during the entire time of your work, you have not uttered a word in Russian. It's true?

Truth. This is a feature of illegal work. You cannot use your native language even at home, being under strict self-control all the time. Although after several years of work, it becomes completely natural. Even dreams are dreamed in other languages. My wife and I still speak mainly English and French.

Did your wife work with you? Was she undercover too?

Yes, my wife Elena is also a professional intelligence officer, and we worked together abroad from the first to the last day.

You have lived in the country for a long time, actually working against it, right?

You know, intelligence is not defined by who you work against. Intelligence is defined by who you work for. “Working against someone” - this cannot be a guideline, the tasks can change. As a scout, you work to benefit your country. A crime can be against someone, and intelligence as an activity is patriotic in nature.

And how then did you perceive people around, if not as enemies?

As the main object of study. This is the country you need to know, these are the people you want to understand in order to help the leadership of your country make the right decisions.

So the scout is like an undercover scientist?

Yes, very often questions of cognition, questions of understanding are raised. I would even say this: in order to win, one must understand, in order to understand, one must love. That is, you have to love the country in which you work. Having a person who, despite misinformation on the spot, can understand what is happening is a positive stabilizing factor. Sometimes a grain of critical information is enough to prepare and defend yourself. I would put it this way: intelligence is inherently a defensive undertaking.

Could you love the USA?

I will not say that I fell in love with this country. Culturally, I have lived in more interesting countries than the United States. But I certainly respect Americans. I really like many of the traits of the American people, such as optimism, resourcefulness, willingness to make necessary changes, the ability to honestly and quickly admit and correct their mistakes.

Where do you like to live better: after an exchange in Russia or in the USA?

Frankly speaking, it is more interesting for me to live in Russia now. First, this is my culture. But most importantly, in Russia I am a witness of a historical moment - the process of the formation of a new country is underway. This process is not easy, painful, but extremely interesting, especially for me, whose job was to understand what is really happening and what forces are behind it.

I am a specialist in shaping the future

Can you clarify? You have worked in the US since 1999, but before that?

I cannot comment on this.

What kind of business did you have in America?

I am an expert in strategic forecasting, in shaping the future. My scientific articles and patents are mainly related to this area. I have worked with leading corporations and government agencies in a number of countries, including the United States. But as a consultant, I also had to work in other areas: managing changes in corporations, organizing the fight for large contracts, and so on.

Money, a business that needs to be run, is a whole life abroad …

Oh sure. In general, if you look from a professional point of view, when a person in my situation finds himself abroad, he must completely build a new life both in material terms and in terms of family. A person actually starts life anew. You can say you feel like a different person. My wife and I flew away on a business trip with one suitcase. I had to get an education again, look for a job, create a business, and more than one. Without anyone's help and with minimal funds - you remember what the situation was in our country at that time. And at the same time, to be engaged in our main business - to fulfill the assigned tasks.

How did you end up at Harvard University?

At Harvard, I received my master's degree in public administration. Upon admission, he passed a detailed selection procedure, like other candidates, including tests, motivation letters, recommendations. By that time, I already had an MBA diploma, and a specialist diploma in world economics, and experience in creating and managing a business. That is, in terms of the degree of preparation I did not differ from other candidates.

Exploration is the most romantic profession

Does the scout need acting talent?

I think yes.

And you yourself never intended to become an actor?

No. It's just that if an actor reincarnates for a certain time, and then returns to his life, then the reincarnation is gradual, but deeper, more comprehensive. You actually become a person of a different nation, of a different language, but not of different ideas.

Has it ever happened that psychological fatigue, if any, reached a critical level, so that you were ready to give up everything?

No, it never happened, because I loved my job very much. I feel like a very happy person. In my heart I was and remain a romantic. Exploration is the most romantic profession. My colleagues and associates - those whom I know personally and whom I have heard about - are amazing, talented, extraordinary people, often humanly complex. These are people of amazing purity. You can write books about their fates, which are often difficult on a personal level. And, what is pity and tragic, we often learn about the best of them only after their death, or even never at all … You know, working in an illegal position cleanses people, gives them something higher - there is simply no time for vanity.

What qualities are important for a scout? What is the main thing?

I think patriotism. This and only this is the whole point of the work. Money cannot be the meaning of intelligence. Only a person devoted to ideas can do his job, realizing that he can spend the rest of his life in prison. No material benefits can justify this.

Does the work of an intelligence officer look like a James Bond movie? What is it: routine or is it a real risk?

I will say this: intelligence work is not being built to fail. That is, the risk is understandable, and decisions are made in such a way as to minimize this risk. Exploration is not an adventurous adventure. If you act like Bond, you will have enough for half a day, a maximum of a day. Even if you imagine that there is a magic safe, which contains all the secrets, tomorrow half of them will become obsolete and will be useless to anyone. The highest class of intelligence is understanding what your opponent will be thinking tomorrow, not what he was thinking yesterday.

My family tree goes back to the times of Ermak

What does the word "patriotism" mean to you?

I think patriotism is the understanding of your place in the world as a part of Russia. These are my friends, these are my parents, this is my pedigree, which goes back to the time of Ermak, when my great-great-grandparents came to Siberia. For me to forget this is to be left with nothing. As a historian in the first, Russian, education, I am especially close to the idea of the great and tragic history of my country, the turning points through which it went, its endless, painful search for oneself between East and West.

It turns out that everyone has such a national spark. But isn't it just a seasoning for the cold political struggle?

No. Let's then talk about the national idea, without even touching on the political struggle. The national idea is an awareness of what place your country occupies in the world, what we as a nation want, what we can allow and what we cannot. If we have a community and understanding of who we are, where we are going, what principles are laid down in the basis, this is what unites people, what is called a national idea. The ideas that were unifying for us before are no longer so. They are a thing of the past. Now Russia is in the process of forming new ideas. The political struggle over how the future of Russia is seen is evidence of the ongoing process of crystallization of the national idea, an element of creation.

How would you describe the current period in the history of Russia?

It seems to me that now is a very interesting stage when we are participating in the formation of a new country. This is a painful period that many countries have gone through. The main thing is not to spoil it ourselves. Not to destabilize the country, but to find a common language and decide in which direction to develop. We do not have a common opinion, but as a nation we must give such an answer so as not to overturn the boat in which we are all sitting.

We deliberately sent the children to a French school

Your children are now 18 and 22 years old. They were born overseas, right?

Yes, our children were born and raised abroad. They grew up there like all normal children, naturally, not knowing a word of Russian.

They have lived there all their lives. Perhaps there is more American in them?

The fact that there was nothing Russian in them before their arrival in Russia is a fact, but I would not call them typical Americans either. Knowing how the American cultural cauldron melts everyone into a uniform pattern, we deliberately sent the children to a French school. So that they retain a European, open, broad outlook on life instead of oversimplified cliches and empty political correctness. And, of course, we tried to give them as many opportunities as possible to see and compare different countries, to draw conclusions for themselves. Obviously, living in another country, you cannot join Russian values. But you can instill, if not love, because they do not know the country, then at least respect.

How did the children go through what happened to you, in particular the arrest?

We were arrested while celebrating the birthday of our oldest son. For several minutes the children thought it was just a prank - a crowd of people in dark suits driving black cars … Of course, it was a shock for them. But it helps to get out of this shock that, as parents, we constantly maintained good emotional contact with them, an open dialogue in the family, mutual understanding and trust. After our arrest, they flew to Russia at our request, not knowing who would meet them and what awaited them … When, after the exchange, we finally met with them in Russia and they learned the truth about our profession, the first month we spent all our nights talking about life and about history. I think in the end they came to understand why we made certain choices in life. Despite all the difficulties of adaptation in adulthood, in Russia they have something that they never had before - grandparents, a family with a long history that loves them.

Did you offer them some kind of ideology?

No, we just tried to educate them as decent, honest people, open to new ideas, open to the world. So that they are humanists by and large.

How is their fate now? Did they manage to integrate into Russian society?

They are in the process of integration, which is very difficult now. Russian, of course, is not the easiest language to learn. In two years they managed to travel around the country, and the strongest impression on them was made by nature, especially Siberia. The sons have their own plans that have nothing to do with politics or intelligence. The elder is more interested in business, especially in the financial sphere.

For the rest of his life, and so it will be lousy enough …

Your group was discovered after you were betrayed by one of the foreign intelligence officers. What would you tell him if you met him?

Well, I think that in any case, this type, Poteev, would try not to meet with me …

But what if? Just imagine

You know, I wouldn't say anything to him. There is no need. In my opinion, for the rest of his life, and so it will be lousy enough. Betrayal is like an ulcer: if you have it, it will eat you. You cannot maintain some kind of emotional balance in life when you realize that you have betrayed or killed someone. And his father was a Hero of the Soviet Union. He did not only betray himself - he killed the memory of his parents. Whatever money they pay him, I agree with Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, who said that it is difficult to envy his life. He will either get drunk, or he will simply be eaten by melancholy: wake up every morning and remember what you have done. You know, the CIA and the FBI are very happy about the betrayal of Poteev, but the attitude towards the traitors themselves, as elsewhere, is disgusting. After two years in the United States, he probably already felt it. They are already tired of him. They don't need him anymore. Like a squeezed lemon.

What were his motives?

I think this is the person for whom homeland and intelligence were secondary things, and therefore, a bargaining chip. Add to that unsatisfied ambition and taste for money, and he is ready to sacrifice principles for a price.

Have you come across scouts who have been overbought or recruited?

No, I never did. I have not heard of a single real professional, let alone an illegal who could be recruited. My impression of the traitor Poteev was precisely that he was weak as a professional. In intelligence, he turned out to be a random person, and here's the result.

When you were discovered, did they try to outbid, recruit?

No. And from the traitor Poteev, and from their own observations, they knew that it was useless. After the arrest, the FBI agents treated me and my wife like professionals to professionals - emphatically respectful.

Can you tell us a little more about what happened after you were discovered? How did you feel at that moment?

Immediately after my arrest, I remember the state of complete internal mobilization, even purely physical. As if the whole old life, all plans suddenly faded into the background, into some kind of fog. The main thing was the desire to understand the reason for the failure and find an opportunity to contact his wife and children. There was an understanding that the old life was over and another stage was beginning - the stage of the struggle according to the new rules, which could last for many years. This state of every minute full readiness for everything lasted absolutely ten days, until it became clear that negotiations on our release were being held at the highest level.

Russia occupies a marginal position among American politicians

How do you, an expert, a historian, a person who knows the country, see America?

The United States is going through a rather difficult period, when a superpower is becoming a normal strong country. Maybe a leader in certain areas, but not unconditional. In the States, this is perceived rather painfully. There are people who ask the question of what place the United States will occupy in the world. It is interesting that many of these people are the military intelligentsia, a very educated stratum that can realistically assess the situation in the country. These military offer the United States to take a position oriented more towards cooperation in solving global problems not only of the country, but also world ones, such as a slowdown in economic growth, instead of maintaining its position by force anywhere. But they are still in the minority. This dialogue about America's future is just beginning, but we need to keep an eye on it, since it also affects Russia, how they see us - as an adversary or, more realistically, as one of the strong players in a multipolar world.

How do Americans perceive Russia?

In general, in the American media and among American politicians, Russia occupies a marginal position. After the USSR went into oblivion, they are really concerned only with the topic of our military potential, which is still dangerous. I don't think American politicians are interested in any other aspect. It all boils down to cliches: Russia is imperfect, plays by the wrong rules, and is undemocratic. They see Russia as weak and therefore uninteresting, not deserving a real partnership dialogue. It's like in relationships between people: in order for others to respect you, you must first of all respect yourself.

You were born in one country, worked in one that competed with the first, and returned to the third …

The fact that I left the country that was called the Soviet Union and returned to the one that was called Russia did not affect me in any way. This is one country for me. My country.