Old Believers about the history of Siberia - first-hand

2024 Author: Seth Attwood | [email protected]. Last modified: 2023-12-16 15:55

The author, under the nickname Sage, posted the material, which, according to him, is being conducted on behalf of the Siberian Old Believer. How reliable this source is, let everyone decide for himself …

While discussing the articles of today's seekers of our true past, Tartary-Scythia, many agreed that our history has been rewritten. But some of the commentators referred to the fact that since all the documents were burned … it is better to leave the fake story as it is. I had the opportunity to give the floor to the Siberian Old Believer, whose relatives have lived on this land for centuries … The text is given by the author without editing!

Inder about Siberia …

“… I'm not a Slav. Outwardly, 100% white European, more like a Swede or Finn, but by Rod - a native Siberian. We lived in Siberia for several thousand years before the emergence of Russia, and even long before the Turkization of Siberia took place. There were quite a few of us left here, until 400 years ago, the Russian Cossacks were knocked down from beyond the Urals, systematically destroying all white pagans, as enemies especially dangerous for Muscovy.

At the time of the Golden Horde, there were 17 clans only in the Lukomorsk kingdom. And probably tens of thousands of people in total.

We lived well under the Golden Horde. Then, during the decline of the great Siberian kingdoms, we were greatly thinned out by the invasions of the Dzungars, but they did not bring us to nothing. But the Russian Cossacks, headed by Orthodox priests, did better … Today, there are a little more than 200 blood traditionalists in Western Siberia from the 4 remaining Clans.

But we have retained most of our tradition, which is also passed down orally through the female line from grandmother to granddaughter, although old people also know a lot. This is the very foundation that bore fruit in the form of Slavic (pre-Christian) and later Hindu culture and mythology

Our Tradition is led by the Heads of Root Clans already up to 560-something tribes. And if we consider that 25 years is taken as one knee - the age of a mature man (earlier, middle children were born at this age), then it is easy to count 25x560 = 14000 years (we do not have a chronology from some ancient event, but on the contrary from this day and back to the past).

There used to be several large Kingdoms in Siberia - "Yugorye" (Western Siberia and the Urals), "Lukomorye" (the lower reaches of the Ob River and part of the coasts of the northern seas), several "Belogorii" (Siyanskoye, Manskoye, Yanskoye, etc.)), "Belovodye" (Upper Iriya, part of the Altai Mountains) and other kingdoms. For several centuries, all this united into the Great Horde (Arda)

The Horde included many kingdoms, khanates, principalities, and ruled by different rulers from different nations. The Golden Horde is just a successor this huge military and geopolitical association in the past, which has actually appeared on the ruins of those great kingdoms. Europeans, incl. the Russians have retained only a fraction of their memory from this era. Most of all they were in contact with Ugra (Ugra, Ugra). Ugra, Yugra, this is the ancient name of the Pechora river. Everything beyond the Pechora was simply called Ugra, and the people were called Ugrai / Ugra.

The first ancestors who lived in Western Siberia were those who lived near the Lukomorye (on the "sea" coast). Lukomorye was later called one of the Great Siberian kingdoms. This is a fairly specific geographic place - the basin of the Ob and Tom rivers. Although there is no smell of the sea here today, nevertheless, according to completely reliable geological data, 14,000 years ago, on the territory of modern Western Siberia, there was a huge reservoir left after melting, still dampened by this glacier from the north. Not the sea, of course, in the literal sense, but nevertheless a gigantic water basin, which we could easily take for the sea and have preserved in the Ancestral byls. Obdora … It was a great principality that was part of Ugra and for a long time the kingdom of Lukomorye.

Geographically, Obdora was located between the northern Urals and the Gulf of Ob. It was there that Vesei was most of all, in Obdor. Maybe that's why they named them "Obda". The name Obda is also somewhat reminiscent of the name of some people. But this is not surprising, because earlier people in Ugra, most of the wild taiga animals were called "forest peoples", practically equating them in importance to their tribes. Of course, there is probably evidence of more ancient confirmed traditions. But, unfortunately, I have not yet encountered such.

I will not undertake to assert anything, but already very many researchers believe that the ancestors of the Slavs appeared on our continent in the North of Siberia, gradually migrating to the central regions of Eurasia, reaching the Pacific Ocean in the east, the Indian Ocean in the south, and the North Sea in the west and the Atlantic

In general, it can be assumed that it was in the middle and lower reaches of the Ob that a certain center was located, from where the ancestors of the Slavs, and possibly the Caucasians in general, then dispersed throughout the world. But where did they come here even earlier, this is exactly what even our grandmothers do not know. They just say "from the north", but the North is great … What is preserved in our Tradition has hardly undergone any changes for several thousand years, and partly resembles some of the traditions that exist today, except perhaps in India. And during this time Russia has experienced so many influences on itself that many concepts have simply become "upside down".

According to official history textbooks, the development of Siberia by the Russians begins only with the campaigns of Yermak, the Slavs themselves are territorially limited by some tiny patch around Novgorod and Kiev.. Not true! We owned and still owns almost the entire Eurasian continent! And Russia was and is the geopolitical successor of the Great Arda (Horde)

Old Siberians tell amazing things that do not fit into any existing historical schemes:

* They say that the white population never came to Siberia, but always lived here, and even vice versa, settled from here in all the lands.

* That we have always lived and still live in the Great Arda, only we call it differently now.

* Many other peoples lived with us in Arda. Tatars are our brothers, but it seems not all, according to the words there are "White Tatars", they are a very kindred people to us.

Arda is a kind of military and political formation on the territory of the modern CIS …

* In order to control a huge territory, tribute (modern taxes) was collected and there was ALWAYS conscription.

* The borders of Arda have been roughly the same for millennia. And to this day they have hardly changed.

* On the territory of Western Siberia, Arda always opposed the Dzungars and hordes of other warlike tribes who came from the territory. modern China.

* They say that in our area there were huge cities, so big that now there are none.

I myself heard about Asgard of Iry as a child, it was a colossal ancient "metropolis". But no one built anything from stone, because the concept was that a person is a Person given to the Soul for the Age, and nothing that is done with his hands should not survive the Human Age for a long time.

The figure of Peter I is not very popular among the people. By the way, we also called him "Petrushka" contemptuously, and in Russia. This historical figure has caused, perhaps, the greatest damage to our common culture with his pro-Western reforms. On his personal orders, special expeditions were sent to Siberia, the purpose of which was to collect and destroy any documents and artifacts that revealed the ancient history of the Great Siberian kingdoms. The Church willingly helped this, they even still have documentary orders at the expense of the pagan antiquities found in the land.

Court "historian" Miller had a direct task to make Siberia "an unhistorical land" … And he succeeded quite well … Today, in Russian textbooks one cannot even find mentions of the huge cities of Tarkh-Tariya, although, for example, this information is in the courses of many universities in the West, where history is taught. They keep silent about it only from us. But he who seeks finds. Even the Cossack letters from the times of the early expansion have been preserved. A kind of reports to the tsar, about over 70 Siberian cities taxed by them with tribute. Seventy cities! And this is during the period of the greatest decline of Tarkh-Tariya! It is impossible to suspect the Cossacks in the postscripts, since this yasak was strictly taken into account and sent to Muscovy. In essence, these were ordinary tax documents. Most likely, it would be more profitable for them to underestimate the number of captured cities than to overestimate, so this information is completely objective.

Our Ancestors in ancient times were literate without exception - they had a simple (written literacy) since childhood. Moreover, the inscribed letter was distributed only among the common people. Knowledgeable people conveyed messages in the form of knitting.

A special “memorial stone” is hidden in our land, which, when released from its prison and sees the sun, will speak in different languages and reveal great secrets. Whoever does not find it - it will just pass by. Those. literally, as soon as direct sunlight touches him, he will begin to "speak" and know secrets, and while he is in prison, he is dumb and dim like a bottle glass (I am citing this, practically, literally).

Yes, many have fought. But some have also held vows of non-violence for centuries. In my 4 root clans there were not only warriors, but also hereditary blacksmiths, and their dynasties came precisely from the armourers of antiquity. I even heard about "snake-swords" from childhood more than once. But with the founding of the "Golden Horde" for some not entirely understandable reasons, military and weapons traditions were cut short. Probably the "Golden Horde" basically adhered to other principles than "Arda the Great," in which the culture of the traditionalists was actually formed in the form in which it has come down to the present day.

Interesting details:

In the main areas where Arda repelled raids from the outside, we exist. points called Kolyvan (Kolovan). Grandma once told me about what "Kolyvany" is

This is a very war-related sanctuary … A structure made of logs in special places, inside and outside of which there were places where provisions were dried for campaigns and soldiers wounded in battle were laid out for recovery. In which places, only special people, sorcerers / sorcerers knew, an ordinary person, not knowing, could approach from the wrong side and even die or grow old for many years. And he could have become younger! In general, these Kolyvans were quite a terrible place, they were very afraid. The Kolyvan sanctuary did strange and sometimes terrible things around itself …

There the dead came to life and wandered in circles, there in some places it was possible overnight

turn gray and grow old, but you could, on the contrary, get younger!

The Kolyvan Magi, who knew all the features of this terrible place, watched over the sanctuary.

If wells were dug in those places before the construction of Kolyvan, then after its construction, water in some of them became "Dead", and in others "Alive".

Also, in the "dead places", the wounded and dying warriors were laid out in rows so that their wounds would heal. And then they were transferred to "living" places to gain strength and get back on their feet! The jagged swords were "younger" there. And in the "dead" places, the raw meat dried up and was taken on military campaigns and to distant outposts, where it did not deteriorate for months!

And they were always erected where the massacres took place most often! There were also "black forges" where blacksmiths-sorcerers forged the most advanced armor and weapons. So in the Novosibirsk region there is Kolyvan …, nearby in the Altai Territory there is also Kolyvan. And the ancient name of the capital of Estonia is Kolyvan.

I'll tell you a "scary" fairy tale (heard from my grandmother in childhood), about how our distant ancestor in the family went to Kolyvan for "Dead Water".

Misfortune happened in the family, the younger sister was crippled.

She lay wounded, with fever and delirium, in the summer the wounds quickly began to rot.

Knowledgeable people advised to get "dead water" to wash the wounds.

Such water could only be obtained in Kolyvan!

But going to Kolyvan is a terrible test, because this place is navier - magical!

So he had to go to Kolyvan.

The Kolyvan Magi showed him a well where the needed water was.

And they said, "Don't waste time, once you turn the gate, you will grow old for five years, twice - by the same amount … and if you miss the bucket, you won't have time to take it out again, you will die of old age on the spot!"

But he was not afraid and went to the well! Brought a full tub of "Dead Water" to the Magi, but he became completely gray-haired and decrepit like a hundred-year-old grandfather.

Then the oldest sorcerer, seeing his fearlessness, raised a white stone and threw it far in the direction of Kolyvan himself, commanding to bring it to him.

And leaving there a gray-haired old man, the test subject brought the magician a white stone again becoming young as before! He returned to his native place, brought both "Dead Water" and a white stone.

His sister's wounds on his legs quickly healed as they washed them with this water.

And the stone placed at the head of the bed inspired her, she became even more beautiful and more cheerful than before!

And this stone was kept in the family as a shrine, it possessed a wonderful healing power!"

The Chinese Wall, according to some experts in the art of fortification, was originally built as a defensive line to repel attacks not from the North, but from the South and Southeast … It was around the heyday of Arda the Great. Those. it is believed that this wall was built by us. Later, it was repeatedly rebuilt and completed by the inhabitants of the Celestial Empire themselves …

Communication between states was much more active than it seems today. And not for "500 years before the Cossacks", but much earlier and more often. The "Northern Sea Route", according to our history, existed 3, 5 - 5 thousand years ago, and caravans from logies went by sea, and then up the Siberian rivers and back, regularly. They really lived in villages / settlements, but they used to be in Siberia and surprisingly large cities! Moreover, with a developed system of communications, apparently, and even with such a prototype of the metro. Due to snowy winters and apparently very chaotic low-rise buildings, it was problematic to move goods / goods along narrow streets. Therefore, when the city grew to a certain size, under it they dug from end to end, cross to cross, its crossing tunnels. Moreover, they were very wide - two steam-powered carts or two war chariots could freely disperse. These tunnels are still legendary in Western Siberia.

Many clans of ours preferred to live sedentary, without changing places for often hundreds of tribes. And the villages called their own exactly - Ancestral Villages. Those. It is quite possible to assume that once, having received from the local ruler the right to land with its subsequent inheritance by descendants, people settled there, and the settlement first took on the appearance of a kind of farm / skete, then gradually expanded and turned from the Family Settlement (estate) into the Selo and even the Settlement. In the days of the ancient kingdoms of Siberia, a maximum of wooden, and even semi-earth buildings were built. It was believed that a dwelling, like the Man himself, should serve only for a century (human age …). Those. the principle of coexistence and non-harm to the environment was respected.

In addition, the axes needed to build houses were also made of something. Of iron, of course. In the modern territory of Kuzbass, where there are iron ore deposits and huge reserves of coal, in some places even to the surface, the iron industry was very developed in ancient times. It was strategically important, because the territory of western Siberia was constantly raided by tribes from the sowing. China, and later Dzungars - weapons were needed like air. And in the "early Bronze" era, Yugorye and some other ancient kingdoms of Siberia had a huge head start in terms of possessing the most perfect weapons at that time. Iron was smelted in almost every second family.

Many people were blacksmiths. Hence the ancient name of the territory of the Kemerovo region - Kuznetsk land. And individual Clans and families and entire villages were engaged in the extraction and delivery of ore, while others specialized in coal mining (there is the village of Pesteri in our area - the ancient name, where the best "pesters" were made there at one time - birch bark back boxes for carrying coal, not everyone could afford a horse), while others specialized in smelting and blacksmithing. It happened that in every house of a village there was an earthen smelter. Not a big stove with furs, or an underground blowing like there were in Arkaim.

Iron was then valued in equilibrium with gold! And to guard the convoys with weapons and steel ingots, guard Artels (squads) lodged along the highways and horse trails. For example, the modern village. Artyshta (the same Kemerovo region) was in the old days called Arda hundred (squad of one hundred). About her, almost legends are still told by the native pagans - ideally armed and chained from head to toe in the best steel armor warriors. And this seems to be 3-4 thousand years ago, long before the Roman infantry with bare asses and wooden shields ran …

The industry was indeed very developed, iron, even in the form of ingots, was exchanged, and even to distant countries, this is now confirmed by researchers who, in chemistry. the composition of the metal is determined to which deposit and time it belongs. And Arkaim is no exception, it also manifests itself very clearly there. In general, the Proto-Slavic - Vedic civilization supplied half of the world with metal (for example, the expression "damask steel" is distorted by the Turks, it was pronounced - "swamp steel"). In a later time, when the white indigenous population of Siberia practically disappeared, iron-making and blacksmithing remained only with the Shors, a small Asian nation living in the mountainous part of Kuzbass. During the expansion of Russia into Siberia 400-300 years ago, they (the Shorts) were even called Kuznetsk Tatars, although in fact they have nothing to do with the real Tatars, and they adopted the craft from the White Yugors and preserved them until the beginning of the 20th century.

In general, all kinds of trades were very widespread on the territory of the pre-Salair and modern Kuzbass. They always drove tar, someone burned charcoal, others dug / transported coal, some burned lime, some did handicrafts, beekeeping was developed, they always traded actively in Siberia. Hunting, fishing and even pond fish farming and gathering were also not the least important, and, apparently, already 3000 and more years ago, fish in ponds were bred.

In our family history, it is mentioned that salt rose in price every year in the fall, and the carts drove for it to the south through Kolyvan (I suppose to the Lake Chany region), where it was evaporated especially for salting a large amount of pond fish. The ponds descended in the fall, and the whole village gathered fish, smoked, dried, but mostly salted in very large quantities. Those. and in those very distant times, the specialization and cooperation of farms was fully developed.

In general, our old people have always said that nothing really changes in the world, everything that happened thousands of years ago, that is, even today, except that the worldly vanity is growing

Those. life was in full swing and everything, incl. modern forms of farming were already millennia before us … Siberia was by no means deserted, it was a flourishing center of intersection of the main trade routes of the continent

But destructive processes are inevitable for entire empires and even civilizations. They are also part of evolution, this should be understood. Russian school textbooks do not write such a thing … And the concept of Arda the Great, sacred for us - indigenous Siberians, is an echo of the almost abusive term "Golden Horde" for the rest. Yerma Temuchin was turned into a Cossack Yermak Timofeich, which never existed, but there was a real character Yerma Temuchin from the indigenous noble family of Van, the very same Van, who, with a light hand of historians, for some reason began to be called Ivan. There is even such a thing in the annals - "Ivan's kingdom" in Siberia. Yerma Temuchin simply concluded an alliance between Muscovy and the remnants of the "Siberian Horde", fragmented by that time by invasions and subjected to violent Islamic expansion by Khan Kuchum (Kuchum - translated as a stranger).

The greatest of the rulers of Eurasia, Genghis Khan, into the greatest villain. Siberia / Tarkh-Tariya - a country of thousands of cities and hundreds of peoples in the land of "unhistorical". Arda the Great was forgotten, and her successor, the Golden Horde, from where, by the way, Russia itself has legs, is revered as a kind of "evil empire" of the ancient world, allegedly holding many nations under the "yoke" … And meanwhile, this "yoke" was all - then the artel tithe, which went to the maintenance of military artels, mainly where young men underwent compulsory training in the art of war. Yes "mountain" system of rapid warning of external intrusions. Plus the unification of many lands on the basis of the unity of cultures, ensuring safe trade and establishing its civilized rules used in general to this day … And of course, attempts to decompose and undermine this ancient system were quickly and harshly suppressed.

It is not for nothing that any sane rulers of all times aspired to Arda. But this was already when the traditions of the Slavic-Aryans were greatly weakened, and the population mixed with the Asiatic. Great kingdoms fell into decay or even disappeared completely. The last attempt to unite everyone was the creation of the "Golden Horde". But the Golden Hordes, unfortunately, also failed to consolidate all this mass of people, and after the collapse of the Chingizid empire, the decline only worsened. In this state, Siberia, with almost no indigenous white population, was found by the tsarist Cossacks and priests, who, with the help of sabers and crosses, completed the destruction … Where did the Great Arda go? Many people in our country believe that it has not gone anywhere.

It still exists today, but in different forms. She, with some changes, transformed into the Golden Horde. Then it became the Russian Empire … After some time it was transformed into the Soviet Union. Today, she is the Russian Federation and with a creak and gnash is still trying to perform all the same geopolitical functions that were once performed by Arda the Great. Not the best times, yes … And yet Arda the Great is behind all this. Nobody knows what it will become tomorrow. But in general terms and even within its borders, this geopolitical entity has existed on the territory of Eurasia for at least 6-7 thousand years. We are still the same people, we still have the same genes, and no matter how much is hidden in us for thousands of years, one day it is necessary

Appendix: Genes of the Horde

“Main results:

1. Genetic markers-indicators of the event "Mongolian conquests of the 13th century" have been formed for the modern populations of Mongols. These are haplogroup C (its frequencies among the Mongols are about 60%) and haplogroups O and D (found among the Mongols with low frequencies).

2. Among Russians, there are carriers of haplogroup C. However, their extremely low number (about 3 people per 1000) indicates that their ancestors were not participants in the event "Mongol conquests of the 13th century" and its consequences - the Mongol-Tatar yoke of the 13-15 centuries. The same applies to the Ukrainians, among whom the markers-indicators of the event in question have not been identified.

3. Significant frequencies of "Mongolian" markers were found only in 3 European populations - Nogais of Dagestan (C, O and D - 25.0%), Crimean Tatars (C, O and D - 22.7%), Istanbul Turks (C - 4, 5%), as well as in groups of Bashkirs (C and O - 4, 0-16, 3%) in the southeastern, southern and southwestern parts of their distribution area. Hypotheses are formulated to explain these facts. The appearance of ethnic Mongols in the south of Eastern Europe, and with them haplogroups C, O and D, seems unrealistic. Most likely, these haplogroups came to the region from the territory of Kazakhstan (through the Nogays) or from the Kalmyks.

4. Are there genetic traces of the 13th century Mongol conquest in Eastern Europe, the Middle East, the Caucasus and the Balkans? No.

Instead of a conclusion

If the Mongol Empire existed in the vastness of Eurasia, and the ancestors of the peoples of Eastern Europe were included in it, but the Mongols did not conquer them, then … It was the Ancestors of the peoples of Eastern Europe that conquered the Mongols. This is an extremely simple logical construction. The obtained conclusion directly follows from the reconstructions of the NKh PhiN. Are there genetic traces of the Russian conquest of the Mongols? It is very easy to get an answer to this question. It is necessary for the modern populations of Russians and other peoples, whose ancestors were involved in the process of creating the Empire, to form genetic markers-indicators "Russia-Horde 14-16 (17) centuries" and check the Mongols for their presence. The main marker-indicator that can serve as a distinctive feature of Russians to the south of their present area of residence (including Siberia) is haplogroup R1a1. Among Russians (the center and south of the European part of Russia), about 50% of its speakers. Do modern Mongols have this marker? Yes. Among the Khalkhs, 3.5% of its carriers were identified (table 1). In the other two samples characterizing the Mongols, the percentage of its speakers is 9.5% and 4.2% (Tables 2 and 3).

If the troops of the Rus-Horde conquered the territory of Mongolia, then they left the occupation armies on it. Most likely, the descendants of these warriors today are ethnic groups of the Mongols. Moreover, among them there should be relatively high frequencies of the R1a1 marker. Are there such ethnic groups among the Mongols? Yes. These are, first of all, Uriankhai and Zakcnin, the descendants of the Oirats. In English, the last word is written clearly and understandably - OIRAD. This is a slightly transformed Russian word ORDA. That is, Uriankhai and Zakcnin are the descendants of the ORDyntsi, the warriors of Russia-Horde. The frequencies of carriers of the R1a1 haplogroup in Uriankhai and Zakcnin are 6.7% and 13.3%, respectively.

But in the west of Mongolia there is another ethnic group of Mongols - Khoton. All that is known about her ancestors is that they came to the region from somewhere, spoke the Turkic language and professed Islam. This is one of the sets of markers for the warriors of Russia-Horde. So, Khoton had abnormally high frequencies of carriers of the haplogroup R1a1 - 82.5%. Here we have only "slightly" outlined these interesting questions - genetic and linguistic markers of Russia-Horde among the Mongols. Of course, they deserve the most detailed consideration."